Breyer State

[Randall Flagg]

"In 1982 (that's 21 years ago, folks), there was a short-lived version of Bear's Guide called "How to Earn an American University Degree Without going to Amnerica.

It was similar in format to the present Bear's Guide Books: 95% of the space devoted to schools with recognized accreditation, and about 5% devoted to unaccredited schools that were operating with proper licensing."
--John Bear--AED--May 6, 2003

I challenge anyone to count the schools in a typical Bear's Guide and find that 95% of the schools he discusses were accredited. Check the 2003 and count them. Check 1982 and see.  How about 1997?

By the way, if there were so few accredited schools back then, as he now says, how did he find enough accredited schools to fill up the early guide books? So he has lied twice. First the guide books have far more unaccredited schools than he mentions and if there were many accredited schools offering degrees, well, he lied again. And this, why would he have recommended unaccredited schools if he had so many accredited schools he could have listed? Hint: he was involved with CPU, IIAS, Fairfax, Greenwich, all unaccredited, and he wanted you to buy from him.

And how many of these accredited universities offered degrees by DL in comparison to 2007?
Many non traditional accredited universities such as National University didn't offer DL.
They offered evening classes and condensed classes in format of a class a month. RD has MBA from NU in CA.
So yes there were accredited schools but few DL options.
Some had weekend classes, others required residency during the summer etc.
Compare to 2007 its like day and night.
I think maybe a little bit more unbiased research may change your view.
The man did more good much more good and earned living out of it.
I applaud Dr. Bear for his work.
And the money I saved is doing well in my children's fund.
Bears guide helped me with my DL choices over the years.
This is my DL Truth

You haven't offered one bit of proof of anything you say, none. Where are your links, quotations, facts? You just give your opinions and say you have done this and that. You have not proved a single fact to back up what you are saying and claiming. You are confronting our facts and links with 'you don't believe it', that's too bad. Refute it with proof or you have nothing but your opinions.

If you can show that Charter Oak or Excelsior / Union / TESC didn't exist and offer accredited degrees via DL in the 70's do so, but as you probably know, they were in existence and did offer DL degrees.

Douglas earned three DL degrees in the 70's and 80's from Excelsior. You mean to tell me Bear didn't know what Douglas did. That Bear was selling degrees from his school (he was part owner) CPU at a time Douglas was working the system at Excelsior for three easy degrees.

[Randall Flagg]

I see your point but in my view there was hand full of schools you just mentioned in comparison to 2007 when every school offers classes and many schools in hundreds or maybe 1000's offer degree programs via DL.
In 70 as I stated you had few and I think I learned about the accredited USNY, Edison, Charter Oak, CIE, UK OU etc from Bears Guide.
Its not like he was hiding the legitimate schools, he did a good job in explaining the value of accreditation and at that time the value of unaccredited degrees. He also helped me and others to avoid embarrassment and get easy degree for life experience, I must admit I almost mailed a 2000 USD check to some mom an pops outfit.
I do remember that he made many degree mill operators really upset for exposing their fraudulent operations.
Yes I also remember that for some time he promoted the GU in Hawaii but he openly stated his involvement with them and the fact that at the time Hawaii didn't have laws regulating schools and the fact the the faculty of GU were all with earned accredited degrees unlike like many frauds schools with people who had their degrees from the same outfit.
Is Dr Bear an Angel no he is a business man in my view but what I read here is you make him in to devil and I think in my view its not the case.
I don't wish to turn this in to Bear bashing tread but I can understand why some are mad at him.
As far as RD I'm not that familiar with this mans work or degrees, only from what I read on the internet and I also think that some here over zealot and try to destroy his reputation and heart him.
Then quoting his disertation and using it against him.
From what I read he adjusted his views based on changes in DL market and legality of such degrees.
Yes his degrees are from non traditional universities.
And the only difference I may have with him and I don't know him at all but from what I read is to stress that not all accredited degrees are equal and I think he knows that.
Whats wrong with advising a person to earn an accredited degree?
Is it a crime?
He can't force a person to do so.
I do understand that this is bad for the business of unaccredited schools on all levels.

Nonsense, you are simply repeating warmed over Bear crap and you are proving nothing except stating your opinions that favor everything Bear did.  He recommended unaccredited schools as good choices that he now denies saying.

Now here are the facts:
"Excelsior was founded in 1971 by the board of Regents of the University of the State of New York as The Regents External Degree Program, a Publicly-funded external -degree-granting unit of the New York State Education Department.

Excelsior 1971

Again prove what you are saying with links or quotes, or references that show what you are claiming. Show the information from the 70's Bear works that say people should choose accredited options first or at all. I want what we are showing, page number, book title, year printed. If you are going to claim he said this or that, prove it.

[Randall Flagg]

More:

"Charter Oak State College was established in 1973 by the Connecticut Legislature to provide an alternative way for adults to earn associate and bachelor's degrees.
--Distance Education.Org

Charter Oak State College

[DR ANATIDAE]

Nonsense, you are simply repeating warmed over Bear crap and you are proving nothing except stating your opinions that favor everything Bear did.  He recommended unaccredited schools as good choices that he now denies saying.

In the words of Frank Abagnale "I concur", as this is the same John Bear, who, as recently as 2002, suggested that if I wanted a 'real' degree I should look at - FAIRFAX, GREENWICH and KENNEDY WESTERN.

[Student]

You haven't proved anything , and 2002 is not 2004.
Its you and not I who is involved in character assassination and I'm yet to see any substantial prove from any of you.
All I read is nonsense and half truths, and quotes taken out of content.
There are more with me than with you. Well maybe not in this discussion board.

I don't keep Dr. Bears quotations but as long as I remember I read the words IF UNACCREDITED DEGREE will serve your needs then he would suggest a better unaccredited school such as CCU when it was unaccredited and couple of others, Yes at one point he supported GU.

[ham]

What I stated was that almost 2 years passed between the posts.
In the 2 years some States made new laws making Fairfax degrees illegal in these States.
I also provided examples of how things can change drastically in the period of 2 years.
If Dr. Bear made these statements within days or weeks from each other then maybe if no new laws that change the utility or usability of such degrees was passed we may see a problem.
But 2 years ?: Come one who are you kidding?

only complete morons, crooks and politicians undergo mind changes this big over 22 months.
Morons are clueless, crooks get caught & need to look good in front of the jury, politicians are wh-res who belong to the highest bidder.
Ah, and I forgot used car salesmen...what's on the lot is in fact the best car ever made...every car, every time.

Worldwide authority John Bear was so eager to close sales that he put his opi[/b]nions in writing in eleventeen editions of his books, besides online.
Now he claims he hasn't the book to look statements up, as if his books had been written by someone else.

So you admit he was merchandising "borderline illegal", "gray area", "controversial" schools , so that he was affected by new regulations...hmmm...for someone who supposedly can accelerate particles into an atom's rear end, it escapes you that Athabasca university, Open University etc have been in operation for more than 30 years and have never been bothered by regulations, because they are uncontroversial.
Uncontroversial and need no John Bear to market their programs to a gullible audience.
Hell, it looks like Schwarzenegger stating that he used steroids, but stopped when they became illegal!


Mind you...John Bear assembled phonebook-like guides, sold them and made profits from the books AND some schools he was giving more or less prominent attention to; fair enough, you'll find thousands of such schemes going on elsewhere.
But the main reason was profit...PECUNIA NON OLET...not imparting good counsel to some idiot who (like me & others ) has spent $19.99 or whatever, or others who bought a dodgy degree, for a sucker & his money shall soon part.

[Student]

You sound like typical diploma mill operator or milled degree owner.
I have seen people undergo mind changes in one day, it depends on the event.
remember when they arrested that murderer that was some kind of church reverend or elder no body could believe that man was a brutal murderer. You don't know what you don't know.
I'm not impressed with your fault language and display of anger.
I have news for you in USA people write books and sell them for profit.
This is called business.
I don't see you mentioning Harriot Watt - Edinburgh HWU EBS MBA that Dr. Bear promoted.  All the wonderful universities that have been there for 30 years such as Athabasca are in Bears Guide so what's is your f''n problem?
Are you blind? Don't you see all the good accredited schools listed in the guide.
If Dr. Bear produced a guide with all unaccredited etc schools , then you can go ballistic be mad. But the truth is he had all of them in his guide.
The best, The OK, The unaccredited OK, Unaccredited not OK, and the Diploma Mills. He explained the value at that time of the different types of schools.
You can't compare Bears guide to other false guides like the one published by Herals Crenshaw in order to promote his Columbia State Crapsity.
Every school that was reviewed belonged to a category and you had clear distinction between them.

Since you mentioned the Governator the manchurian candidate that completely sold out to ultra liberals in CA, its a perfect example for many who had some hope initially when he was elected and now simply have another ultra left liberal as a governor of CA.
At least my state has a governor that didn't betray his voters unlike the CA.

[Randall Flagg]

"Columbia Pacific lost its State Approval to operate in 1995 after failing a review by the Council for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education."
--John Bear--AED--December 1999

So CPU lost its state approval in 1995, but, then we have the fact that Bear listed it in:

College Degrees by Mail-100 Good Schools-page 75--1995
College Degrees by Mail- Page 170--1996
So the year it lost its approval it was listed in the guide, and in 1996, one year later, it is still listed as one of the good schools. So the approval was gone while it was still being listed as a good school, a good choice.

Oh yes, I might had best point out that the 1995 guide didn't separate the unaccredited and accredited schools. They were all lumped together and there was not one negative word said about the unaccredited schools, all were called GOOD.

Bear goes out of his way to assure the readers that accreditation while important isn't final and that many VERY GOOD schools are unaccredited. page-23

Bear now claims to have always said accredited was much better and that unaccredited schools were just ok. But he actually says in the 1995 guide, page 23, that there are some very good unaccredited schools and he in no place in the book contradicts this or does he say that accredited is much better, or for that matter, even better.

[Randall Flagg]

You sound like typical diploma mill operator or milled degree owner.
I have seen people undergo mind changes in one day, it depends on the event.
remember when they arrested that murderer that was some kind of church reverend or elder no body could believe that man was a brutal murderer. You don't know what you don't know.
I'm not impressed with your fault language and display of anger.
I have news for you in USA people write books and sell them for profit.
This is called business.
I don't see you mentioning Harriot Watt - Edinburgh HWU EBS MBA that Dr. Bear promoted.  All the wonderful universities that have been there for 30 years such as Athabasca are in Bears Guide so what's is your f''n problem?
Are you blind? Don't you see all the good accredited schools listed in the guide.
If Dr. Bear produced a guide with all unaccredited etc schools , then you can go ballistic be mad. But the truth is he had all of them in his guide.
The best, The OK, The unaccredited OK, Unaccredited not OK, and the Diploma Mills. He explained the value at that time of the different types of schools.
You can't compare Bears guide to other false guides like the one published by Herals Crenshaw in order to promote his Columbia State Crapsity.
Every school that was reviewed belonged to a category and you had clear distinction between them.

Since you mentioned the Governator the manchurian candidate that completely sold out to ultra liberals in CA, its a perfect example for many who had some hope initially when he was elected and now simply have another ultra left liberal as a governor of CA.
At least my state has a governor that didn't betray his voters unlike the CA.

I have a copy of a free mailer Bear sent out in which he listed degree mills to use if that was what you wished to do. The early guides listed the contact information to the degree mills until a lawyer warned him he might get into trouble.

So Athabasca has been around for 30 years AND ALL THOSE OTHERS, as you said above, but didn't you say there were so very few choices back then and that is why Bear pushed the unaccredited schools. It seems you knew much more than you cared to admit, didn't you. So according to your own words, all those wonderful schools existed while Bear was busy owning Greenwich-Fairfax-CPU-IIAS. Now that is exactly what I said and you disagreed. Strange that. So there were plenty of options back when Bear was singing the unaccredited is good tune, thanks for finally admitting that.

And the school is Heriot-Watt. Bear was the agent for them, But he failed to tell his customers that only about 6% of his customers ever finished the degrees. But he did mention it years after he sold out. Strange that it seemed more funny to him later.

[ham]

You sound like typical diploma mill operator or milled degree owner.

No, I don't own milled degree; I studied with accredited (non-dodgy) universities only, but I do not pillory those who do have milled degrees, provided they don't try to tell me their getting a novelty I.D compares to traditional education. Then, I probably would get a milled degree if my chances of getting a job IN THE AREA I AM DEEPLY PROFICIENT IN might be hampered by lack of paper qualification.

I'm not impressed with your fault language and display of anger.

pardon?

If Dr. Bear produced a guide with all unaccredited etc schools , then you can go ballistic be mad. But the truth is he had all of them in his guide.
The best, The OK, The unaccredited OK, Unaccredited not OK, and the Diploma Mills. He explained the value at that time of the different types of schools.

so?
that is why i referred to the books as "phonebook-style guides".

You can't compare Bears guide to other false guides like the one published by Herals Crenshaw in order to promote his Columbia State Crapsity.
Every school that was reviewed belonged to a category and you had clear distinction between them.

Blatant mill MARLBOROUGH UNIVERSITY did actually sell an edition of Bear's guide with favourable comments about them; comments dropped in further editions same as ads are dropped as old patrons leave and new arrive.

So Athabasca has been around for 30 years AND ALL THOSE OTHERS, as you said above, but didn't you say there were so very few choices back then and that is why Bear pushed the unaccredited schools.