Breyer State

[Randall Flagg]

I don't see this the way you described it.
I know that education is an industry and it is competitive.
Businesses pay for marketing, advertisement and referrals.
History shows that RA or even better RA + PA from decent school has the most value specially if licensing or board certification is the goal.
So I'm of the opinion that if their agenda is to promote something that is good and I would recommend to my children then I have no issue with that.
This works bout ways, I think people get ripped off by schools that later turn to be not that good and the credential marginal with limitations. At the same time public is better protected from the sub standard schools.
Here is where I deffer with some of them, I think that the range of schools can exist, all the way from Yale and Harvard, Cambridge to state licensed schools as long as real education is provided or real assessment or examinations for work and other learning experiences take place.
Now I can see at time turf wars and one group trying to run out competition but the consumer can and is dictating. This is why so many real B&M schools offer DL capitalizing on Internet and other technologies, this is market driven.
In many countries there is more or less uniform system and the student has less to worry when it comes to education providers, in US its very diverse. Many countries have national Standard for diplomas and this way if a person has this kind of credential it is legally accepted for all types of jobs etc. This makes the need for researching a school much lower than in USA where you must research every school, their types of accreditation, State laws about the Licensing if the school degree be accepted for the exams etc.
Mobility between the states, tier, are they going to be around next year, graduate school acceptance etc.
I know persons who earned degrees with ITT and later go disappointed with their limitation to continue in RA school for further higher degree.
When a person earned State Format diploma in France or Russia every one knows that minimum state requirements are followed and the person studied the appropriate curriculum with appropriate level of teachers etc. All Grad schools for higher degree accept such degrees.
But some bureaucrats at times their goal is to create a problem so they can come in with legislation and solve it.

Experiential schools have little or no freedom and the legislation makes their degrees illegal.
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Answer: Many very good schools are not accredited, either by their own choice (since accreditation is a totally voluntary and often very expensive procedure), or because they are too new (all schools are unaccredited at one time in their lives, or too EXPERIMENTAL (many would say too innovative) for the generally conservative accreditors.

There are no national standards for accreditatrion.

Unaccredited degrees may be used in Oregon simply by saying they are unaccredited and then it is up to the employer to decide, and since 96% say they see them as positive, they have good usage even in the King's (Contrera's) home state.

[DR ANATIDAE]

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Answer: Many very good schools are not accredited, either by their own choice (since accreditation is a totally voluntary and often very expensive procedure), or because they are too new (all schools are unaccredited at one time in their lives, or too EXPERIMENTAL (many would say too innovative) for the generally conservative accreditors.
There are no national standards for accreditatrion.
Unaccredited degrees may be used in Oregon simply by saying they are unaccredited and then it is up to the employer to decide, and since 96% say they see them as positive, they have good usage even in the King's (Contrera's) home state.  

Even John Bear acknowledges that there are over 2,000 totally independent private colleges and universities in the USA. Of course, the world doesn't end with the USA and there are many similar colleges spread throughout all corners of the globe. These private educational providers survive only if they are successful - and offer what people want. In the UK there are many Royal Chartered educational providers which operate entirely privately and totally without any interference with government/regional bureaucratic involvement. And in NZ the seven universities are all totally independent - even though on paper they are 'validated' by the NZ Qualifications Authority; much the same as the OPEN UNIVERSITY in the UK - the world's most successful DL university.

[Whatever]

[quote=Randall Flagg]
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Of course, the world doesn't end with the USA

Someone had better tell Bush!!!!!

[Randall Flagg]

[quote=Randall Flagg]
==============================
Of course, the world doesn't end with the USA

Someone had better tell Bush!!!!!

But it could end with Bush.

[Student]

Dear Dr A I quote you:

These private educational providers survive only if they are successful - and offer what people want.

My comment on this is that there will be always customers for easy degrees so by your logic the easy degree schools will survive and I basically agree because why would there be so many diploma mills if this wasn't a good business and there was a demand for fraudulent, or barely legal degrees or inexpensive legitimate degrees.

[Randall Flagg]

As long as the school is legal, has reasonable requirements, it is one that any person has the right to choose. Inexpensive is just fine with me.

[DR ANATIDAE]

My comment on this is that there will be always customers for easy degrees so by your logic the easy degree schools will survive and I basically agree because why would there be so many diploma mills if this wasn't a good business and there was a demand for fraudulent, or barely legal degrees or inexpensive legitimate degrees.

Who said anything about easy? Suggest to talk to Richard Coleman Douglas about 'easy' degrees and then enrol with KU and see the difference. The Open University in the UK has been in existence since 1964 and is a private self-validating university. OU degrees are relatively inexpensive compared to UK B&M universities, but you will never find a student who would say 'OU degrees are easy'.

[Student]

Open University UK is Royal Chartered university in this case it makes it NA / RA equivalent. Is Privy Council involved I know about OU for many years now their status is not the same as some other universities we discussed.
For example NARIC will always evaluate OU degrees are equivalent and equal to National Standard Degrees in France, Russia and Denmark.

Not the case with KU, you keep saying that KU degrees are demanding, and this is very good to hear, KU appears to earn good reputation but their degree
is unaccredited and not of the national standard or format. This is limiting factor and not in the favor of the degree holder who would be served better if the degree came with such QA stamp of approval. I will have to take your word for it. Will HR manager do the same take your word? WIll licensing board take your word?

These private educational providers survive only if they are successful - and offer what people want.

Yes, the same statement is true is for diploma mills.

[ham]

Not the case with KU, you keep saying that KU degrees are demanding, and this is very good to hear, KU appears to earn good reputation but their degree
is unaccredited and not of the national standard or format. This is limiting factor and not in the favor of the degree holder who would be served better if the degree came with such QA stamp of approval. I will have to take your word for it. Will HR manager do the same take your word? WIll licensing board take your word?

presently I am getting some tuition from a private online tutor. I read countless pages of essays from this person ( a former university teacher & legitimate Ph.D holder ), so I determined he might just be what I needed.
however I am fully aware that whatever amount of work might be required, and whichever the quality of the learning process, I am NOT getting an accredited degree or similar whatsoever.
In the past I hired a graduate of a special language school in Canada to brush my french up. That person has a 110% govt-accredited degree fully equipping him to legally assess language tests & performances in Quebec.
The training was rigorous, but I got no parchement and no comparison can be made with my official diplomas from french "MINISTERE DE L'EDUCATION NATIONALE".
If ever private tutors I work/ed with become authorities in their field, getting a recommendation from them might -just might- be worth more than a degree, coming from top notch authority dr. whatever, but there is a one-on-one basis...if KU can get Stephen King or John Grisham to be your fiction writing mentor, then good...rather than a unaccredited school as such.

[Randall Flagg]

We are not saying a KU degree has to be accepted by all or wanted by all. We are saying it is up to the student how he or she gets the education or training. We are saying that a small group of people (as at Di) don't have the right to try and control what legal schools people wish to use. Especially when the the ring leaders, Bear and Douglas, have both benefited financially from those unacredited schools, often. If they can work at and own state licensed colleges, we can choose to use them. If it is wrong morally to have unaccredited degrees as they have often claimed, then how much worse should it be to sell them. But they claim to be the good guys and that we are millist because we have bought the very things they sold, nonsense. If it's good for the seller, it's legitimate for the buyers.
Greenwich University
Virginia International University
International Institute for Advanced Studies
Fairfax University
MIGS
Columbia Pacific University

None of these are accredited and both Bear and Douglas had involvement with them. They, needless to say, cashed the checks and hyped the schools. They now say so what. So what? People used these schools, got degrees, and now have to watch as Bear and Douglas say all unaccredited schools are very bad or mills. Well, I say this. If they were too bad to use they were too bad to sell, but they did sell them and hype them as good. They still claim they did no wrong, only the students who listened to them, according to them, went wrong.