Little Arminius Wrote:Have you looked into the possibility of a South African doctoral program? The primary South African DL university is UNISA (University of South Africa), from which I earned a BA(Hons) degree a number of years ago. They are a very large university with international recognition but are also (in)famous for their multi-layered bureaucracy. Even with the difficulties in receiving responses from the school, UNISA is an excellent value - you are getting a very solid, mid-level quality RA-equivalent for the cost of a community college!

UNISA homepage

While UNISA is 100% DL (though they have study centres in various locations in SA and Namibia), B&M SA universities also have provisions for "part-time" doctoral studies in various disciplines. This "part-time" study is essentially distance learning. At the doctoral level in SA (including UNISA) there is no formal coursework but rather a thesis(dissertation) proposal, the thesis(dissertation) itself and the oral defense.  

Four additional points:

1) Due to a reorganization and consolidation of the SA university system, many schools focused their specializations in several areas. Hence, perhaps only a handful will offer the program you want.

2) Check how frequently you will have to go to SA. With UNISA you can probably get away with a single visit to defend you thesis*(dissertation) but that may not be the case with all programs.

3) Jack Tracey of DegreeDiscussion was accepted into and enrolled in a PhD program at University of the Free State. He is usually generous with his time and in providing info if you ask.

4) You can find a lot of useful info on UNISA at degreeinfo. Look for posts by Brad Sweet as he actually has a UNISA PhD; ignore anything written by Chip (the owner) as he doesn't know what he's talking about.

* UNISA's Graduate School of Business Leadership offers a Doctor of Business Leadership (DBL) that while 100% DL, also require that you attend several "colloquia" while a dcotoral student. That translates into 4 visits to SA plus yout oral defense.

             I've been steered over to UNISA over on DD and am weighing over the cost vs. the apparent bureaucracy issues and possible travel concerns.  Having to travel to South Africa really buts a whole new perspective on "distance" learning.

Nevertheless I have a lot of thinking to do.    

Little Arminius Wrote:These folks are UNISA's licensed agent in North America:

IACA-Canada

I'm not sure how relevant their services are for doctoral-level students but you may want to check them out.

Duggle Wrote:

Little Arminius Wrote:These folks are UNISA's licensed agent in North America:

IACA-Canada

I'm not sure how relevant their services are for doctoral-level students but you may want to check them out.

Good link.  They will support and enroll doctoral students.

I contacted them and they will assist but they added that the process is somewhat even more complicated now.    

Douglas-Degreediscussion Wrote:By most accounts, they've (KWU) applied. This is meaningless, however. I suspect they got serious, but were told to completely re-tool, and to not continue enrolling students into their demonstrably substandard degree programs.

Barrington was a bit of a surprise. But then again, DETC has a sad history of accrediting schools engaged in some really shady practices. (For example, why is a school operating from Mobile, Alabama, allowed to bill itself as the "University of Atlanta"?)

As for your last question, that's the problem with most unaccredited DL schools: it's hard to distinguish them from diploma mills. Also, the term "diploma mill" is highly personal, situated in one's own frames of reference.

Dennis Ruhl Wrote:

Douglas-Degreediscussion Wrote:By most accounts, they've (KWU) applied. This is meaningless, however. I suspect they got serious, but were told to completely re-tool, and to not continue enrolling students into their demonstrably substandard degree programs.

Barrington was a bit of a surprise. But then again, DETC has a sad history of accrediting schools engaged in some really shady practices. (For example, why is a school operating from Mobile, Alabama, allowed to bill itself as the "University of Atlanta"?)

As for your last question, that's the problem with most unaccredited DL schools: it's hard to distinguish them from diploma mills. Also, the term "diploma mill" is highly personal, situated in one's own frames of reference.

Since I can't comment at Degreediscussion I'll do it here.  Over the last 10 years Douglas has stated that every university that's been up for accreditation is a degreemill or otherwise deficient without any exception I can recall.

Obviously Douglas is unaware that the University of Atlanta changed hands a few years before accreditation and increased the rigor of its programs to meet the standard of accreditation.  DETC made no compromise and to my knowledge never has.  Why are we aware that some DETC accredited schools have been deficient?  Simply because they have had their accreditation terminated.  The regionals turf out schools every year.  In the USDOE's last review, DETC was praised for meeting every standard while the regionals were saved from action only by their political stroke and received a warning.  At the time the AALE was suspended from new accreditations but has since been reinstated.  

The term diploma mill is highly personal especially if you're trying to win an argument without evidence.  Many people have called the Union Institute and University a degreemill.  That's where Douglas got his PhD.  Since his graduation they have increased their standards because of disciplinary action from the NCA, the USDOE, and the Ohio Board of Regents.  Other people have called the University of Phoenix a degreemill.  That's where Douglas got years of teaching experience.

What does it all mean?  Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.  I means nothing more and nothing less.  Douglas has his meaningless opinions, just like everyone else.

ShotoJuku Wrote:Thanks for the input Dennis, let me boldly ask (your opinion)......based on what you have observed.....would you consider Breyer State a mill or simply unaccredited?

Dennis Ruhl Wrote:

ShotoJuku Wrote:Thanks for the input Dennis, let me boldly ask (your opinion)......based on what you have observed.....would you consider Breyer State a mill or simply unaccredited?

Yes I have one - an opinion that is.  I am unsure about BSU but I suspect that it is an unaccredited school that takes some shortcuts.  I also suspect that a reasonably substantial amount of work would be required to earn a degree.

Duggle Wrote:This is why Dennis is either an uninformed asshole or utterly uninformed.  I'm betting on both.