(03-10-2012, 03:35 PM)DR ANATIDAE Wrote: Sadly, you have completely missed my point, or you simply know little about private universities or UK Chartered institutions, or don't appreciate how such institutions are managed. You also seem to have a strange fixation on degree mills!
Between the authority to operate (Royal Charter or Act of Parliament) and quality control (the QAA), what have I missed?
As for commenting on degree/diploma mills, is there a problem with that? Considering the title of the thread and a great deal of its content, diploma mills seem to be very relevant. And they're bad, wouldn't you agree? The people who run them and the people who claim these degrees are frauds, right?
(03-10-2012, 06:43 PM)Virtual Bison Wrote: But you see, by targetting the graduates of unaccredited Universities and Colleges, the government is really going after the little guys and ignoring the big fish. They are looking for easy targets and are playing a game of smoke and mirrors.
But is that happening? I don't recall cases where the government prosecuted individuals using fake degrees. They normally prosecute the diploma mills (when they can, which is seldom).
Quote:Here is what I would ask to you, why is it that Unaccredited schools exist in the first place? In the case of truely fraudulent operations in which students literally buy their diplomas, well I think its wrong. But again there are fine lines and sometimes one must cut this with a razor's edge.
In the case of several unaccredited schools, they filled a void. Long ago, the elites at traditonal Universities looked at disdain at part time adult students. Night school was not seen as carrying the same weight as traditional programs. At one time all distance learning programs were looked upon with suspicion. To take correspondence class was seen as being substandard. Later the internet led to a boom in online programs. Every change in educational method meets resistance in the beginning.
Many students choose to unaccredited because they are inexpensive. Keep in mind, in Scandanavian countries and other places where education is free and it is somewhat easier for average people to attend higher learning programs this is not an issue. But in the US traditional programs are very expensive and can leave students strapped with loans for years.
Education IS expensive, but there is a great deal of variability in this, with some really inexpensive options available out there. But cost can't be the determining factor here. We're not talking about a sliding scale of cost vs. quality. There is a baseline of what is and is not a degree. A few unaccredited schools have carved out very nice niches, but that's about it. The rest are either substandard or, in some cases, merely new and on their way to accreditation. (Even then, the student bears some risk.)
Getting around the qualifications system in order to save money is like getting around your car's safety systems for the same reason.
Quote:And in all cases I would say its none of the governments business to tell anyone what they can put on a resume or application. If they were really so concerned than why not pass laws making it a crime to lie about past jobs, skills or expieriences. Will the State of Texas (a Fascist police state if there ever was one) tell its residents that it is a felony to say that you have experience in building digital networks when all you really did is wire a home computer to the internet? There are just not enough prisons in the US to house everyone who lied on a job application.
I think that's why you don't see it happening. The users don't go to jail, just the sellers. (If that were the same for the "war on drugs" our prisons would empty out, too.)
Even in Oregon you don't see individuals actually prosecuted, and that state's ODA is as smothering as an agency can get in this matter. (Other states have very tight laws about what is and is not a university, but seldom do they try to legislate what people call themselves and with which degrees.)
So, I agree that the government shouldn't normally target individuals. And it doesn't.
Quote:I got news for you. In my place of business there was a guy who claimed to have extensive freelance experience in programming when all he did is get some Programming for Dummies book. He lasted about a month or so before anyone realized he was a flake. Now I would not write the dude a letter of recommendation. But I would not want this guy to be arrested either.
People lie to get what they want in life. Sometimes its a big lie (politicians are notorious for big lies) and sometimes its a little one. Telling your wife that she does not look fat in a dress she just bought may be a little lie. Telling someone at a hospital that you are an MD when you are not is a big one and quite honestly should be illegal, and it usually is.
Its all relative I guess.
Agreed.