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+--- Thread: Civility in Canada (/thread-242.html)
Civility in Canada - Herbert Spencer - 05-20-2008
When you discover your minister has an "offshore diploma mill" degree on his wall and insists on being called "Rev. Dr.," should you:
a) stalk him
b) out him
c) report him to the feds
d) all of the above?
In Canada, where common sense and civility prevail, the answer seems to be "none of the above."
Quote:Faux diploma is vain, but not fraudhttp://www.thestar.com/News/article/426681
May 17, 2008 04:30 AM
Ken Gallinger
Q The senior minister in our church is doing a good job, and is well liked both in the congregation and in the community, where he contributes to many worthwhile charitable projects. However, he insists on being called Rev. Dr., and on his wall is a PhD certificate that is fake – that is, from on offshore degree mill. I have broached the topic with him gently but he becomes offended and even a shade derogatory. Should I pursue this matter any further with the board of our church?
A Once upon a time, I proudly displayed my university diplomas on my office wall. Sadly, my office was directly beneath a washroom used by a daycare centre. One day, the little Heaven's Angels decided it would be fun to stuff approximately 432 rolls of toilet paper in the loo directly above my proud parchments. By the time the flood subsided, my hard-earned pieces of paper had returned to the pulp from which they came.
Strangely, I have discovered that, since becoming diploma-less, I am not one whit more or less competent, compassionate or employable than I was before the deluge. This experience has taught me exactly how much a diploma, per se, is worth.
The issue with your pastor's mail-order diploma is not one of credentials. I know of no church where a PhD is required for pastoral ministry, so it's not like a medical doctor displaying a fake MD or an engineer wearing a dime-store ring. Your minister, by your own admission, is doing a good job, which only proves the point.
There is an issue, however, of honesty. And, unlike a doctorate, honesty is essential in the relationship between spiritual leaders and their flock. Even here, though, his indiscretion is a minor one – not an outright lie, just a bending of the truth. If the diploma were a forgery from a real university like Queen's, Western or U of T, then you'd be talking about fraud and would be fully justified in pushing the point further.
But the piece of paper is what it is – it admits to where it's from, and anyone reading it can make their own judgment – just as you have.
As for insisting on being called Rev. Dr. – well, that's pompous, regardless of whether the degree is real or fake, and if pomposity were a prosecutable offence, half the ministers I know would be in jail.
What you're dealing with here is a foolish but minor image enhancement – nothing more or less. Why your minister needs such an ego boost is up to him to sort out. I know ministers who dye their hair to look younger (thank goodness I don't know any who colour their beards). I know ministers who wear coloured contact lenses to look sexier. I know ministers who preach with fake Scottish accents to sound more erudite. Big deal.
You've raised the issue. You've made your point. Let it go. It's the good "doctor's" problem, not yours.
Send your questions to Ken Gallinger at ethical@sympatico.ca
RE: Civility in Canada - Ben Johnson - 05-20-2008
That advice makes way too much sense. The people who most strenuously object to degreemill degrees seem to be people with real degrees that are often called degreemill degrees. They have to keep the distinction clear. Well other than Gollin but he's got serious damage. You would figure that a nuclear physicist with a PhD from Princeton would try to make a mark in his field. I guess when you're firing blanks you go with what you've got - internet stalking?
RE: Civility in Canada - ham - 05-20-2008
I disagree here.
Quote:The senior minister in our church is doing a good job, and is well liked both in the congregation and in the community, where he contributes to many worthwhile charitable projects. However, he insists on being called Rev. Dr., and on his wall is a PhD certificate that is fake – that is, from on offshore degree mill. I have broached the topic with him gently but he becomes offended and even a shade derogatory. Should I pursue this matter any further with the board of our church?
How could a man of god put so much emphasis on nonsense?
Maybe he deserves a lesson in humility.
Much as the argument is seductive, it is faulty to assume that 'lost' diplomas equal fake ones.
I can loose my credit card and get a new one...what use would be a fake credit card (I'm not talking about cloned cards here)?
RE: Civility in Canada - Ben Johnson - 05-20-2008
ham Wrote:I can loose my credit card and get a new one...what use would be a fake credit card (I'm not talking about cloned cards here)?
I take credit cards in my business and if a fake one works as good as a real one I'm haapy. The bank has asked help in a few investigations in regard to fingerprints (good luck) and video surveilance but they've never screwed us. Maybe a fake one is just as good as a real one. Actually the cards in question probably were stolen.
RE: Civility in Canada - ham - 05-20-2008
I'm not talking about duplicate or stolen cards, but just fake cards.
A fake card is worth nothing, but can have novelty purposes much like bogus degrees do.
If the phoney, however, takes an attitude, he needs some humility.
RE: Civility in Canada - Albert Hidel - 05-21-2008
Herbert Spencer Wrote:But the piece of paper is what it is – it admits to where it's from, and anyone reading it can make their own judgment – just as you have.
That's what normal people do. Don't tell Gollum, or he'll have no reason to live. He'll have to go home and listen to his wife instead of stalk people on the internet.
RE: Civility in Canada - Brian Crawford - 05-21-2008
Ben Johnson Wrote:That advice makes way too much sense. The people who most strenuously object to degreemill degrees seem to be people with real degrees that are often called degreemill degrees. They have to keep the distinction clear. Well other than Gollin but he's got serious damage. You would figure that a nuclear physicist with a PhD from Princeton would try to make a mark in his field. I guess when you're firing blanks you go with what you've got - internet stalking?
Everyone knows George Dana Gollin bought his degree the same as our beloved President, even though I for one, love the latter but laugh at the former who has such a need to be someone he is not.
When Bush displays a Bushism, we all chuckle and say, I'm glad he's a human and makes mistakes. When Gollin does something stupid, more often than not, we all say "what as he thiking?" We all know George Dana Gollin is an educated idiot who bought is degree and showed up for classes, BFD. As with most ivy league idiots, they are book smart and pratictal stupid.
Now now kids, lets not review this as me comparing Bush to Gollin, Gollin could not make a pimple of Bush's ass.
RE: Civility in Canada - ham - 05-22-2008
Quote:Gollin could not make a pimple of Bush's ass.
both live in an hallucination of their own they call world, though.
RE: Civility in Canada - Brian Crawford - 05-22-2008
ham Wrote:Quote:Gollin could not make a pimple of Bush's ass.
both live in an hallucination of their own they call world, though.
True, but Bush did not have to have his wife recommend him for an appointment as a CHEA commissioner because she is to embarassed to use his last name and Chaney has the lesbian daughter.