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+--- Thread: Okay To Shop Around? (/thread-1317.html)
Okay To Shop Around? - Really? - 03-11-2012
I read this in a doctoral candidate's thesis:
This is to certify that I am responsible for the work submitted in this thesis, that the original work is my own except as specified in acknowledgements, and that neither the thesis nor the original work contained therein has been submitted to this or any other institution for a higher degree. (Emphasis added.)
Intriguing. The university (a top 15 UK uni), prohibits a student from submitting work that had previously been submitted towards a degree. So, if someone submitted his work to a school for a degree and later submitted the same work to another school for a degree, wouldn't that be unethical? It sure seems so.
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Martin Eisenstadt - 03-11-2012
(03-11-2012, 09:21 AM)Really? Wrote: So, if someone submitted his work to a school for a degree and later submitted the same work to another school for a degree, wouldn't that be unethical? It sure seems so.
Trying to line up another cheap shot at someone who submitted a diss to two different unaccredited schools?
As you may know, fraud vitiates consent. If the first program was discovered to be fraudulent then the initial submission should be deemed vitiated. So if that boilerplate language accompanied the second submission it should be considered accurate and truthful.
It really seems to bother you that the person in question seems to get a lot more mileage out of his unaccredited degree than you get out of your accredited one. Could that be because it's not the quality of the degree that really matters, but rather the quality of the guy with the degree?
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - ham - 03-11-2012
(03-11-2012, 09:21 AM)Really? Wrote: I read this in a doctoral candidate's thesis:
This is to certify that I am responsible for the work submitted in this thesis, that the original work is my own except as specified in acknowledgements, and that neither the thesis nor the original work contained therein has been submitted to this or any other institution for a higher degree. (Emphasis added.)
Intriguing. The university (a top 15 UK uni), prohibits a student from submitting work that had previously been submitted towards a degree. So, if someone submitted his work to a school for a degree and later submitted the same work to another school for a degree, wouldn't that be unethical? It sure seems so.
Technically, everybody's a plagiarist, then...much as the scholar who carves eleventeen articles for peer-review publication nearly verbatim from his doctoral thesis.
But I think all they mean is that "the package" cannot come ready made, or you may use whatever body of work you see fit as long as you "rework it"
to look somewhat different.That's not speculation but actual exchanges I had with one UK university: original in the sense it doesn't come verbatim from another source.
With all intellectuals droning incessantly on the same subject, it'd be foolish to expect absolute originality at every turn.
If you crafted a couple killer paragraphs on a given assumption using say 4 sources...well, that's it...then you just change "believe" into "argue" etc.
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Really? - 03-11-2012
(03-11-2012, 03:26 PM)Martin Eisenstadt Wrote:(03-11-2012, 09:21 AM)Really? Wrote: So, if someone submitted his work to a school for a degree and later submitted the same work to another school for a degree, wouldn't that be unethical? It sure seems so.
Trying to line up another cheap shot at someone who submitted a diss to two different unaccredited schools?
As you may know, fraud vitiates consent. If the first program was discovered to be fraudulent then the initial submission should be deemed vitiated. So if that boilerplate language accompanied the second submission it should be considered accurate and truthful.
It really seems to bother you that the person in question seems to get a lot more mileage out of his unaccredited degree than you get out of your accredited one. Could that be because it's not the quality of the degree that really matters, but rather the quality of the guy with the degree?
If one is a co-conspirator in a fraud, does the fraud release that person from responsibility and, thus, free said person to commit fraud yet again? Given, of course, that both circumstances are similar.
I've spoken of no particular person. And I have no such degree.
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Don Dresden - 03-12-2012
(03-11-2012, 09:53 PM)Really? Wrote: If one is a co-conspirator in a fraud, does the fraud release that person from responsibility and, thus, free said person to commit fraud yet again? Given, of course, that both circumstances are similar.
If John Bear calls it a "good choice," is John Bear a co-conspirator in the fraud too?
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Really? - 03-12-2012
(03-12-2012, 04:52 AM)Don Dresden Wrote:(03-11-2012, 09:53 PM)Really? Wrote: If one is a co-conspirator in a fraud, does the fraud release that person from responsibility and, thus, free said person to commit fraud yet again? Given, of course, that both circumstances are similar.
If John Bear calls it a "good choice," is John Bear a co-conspirator in the fraud too?
Could be, if he was proactive in the scam, not just making a recommendation. Otherwise, he's like any reviewer: he's going to get some right and get some wrong, and one might or might not find his opinions useful.
Criticising critics is a long-held practice. One would expect him to get a share of it.
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Armando Ramos - 03-17-2012
http://www2.le.ac.uk/departments/clms/postgraduate/phd/students
Thesis title blank? Is somebody shopping around for a new good choice?
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Ben Johnson - 03-17-2012
Didn't someone we know take a failed Roman Classics dissertation, toss in a Chinese angle to turn it into a comparative study and to please an ethnic Chinese prof, and salvage a doctorate in theology?
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Martin Eisenstadt - 03-19-2012
Speaking of comparative studies, I was kind of looking forward to comparing the second one with the first one. Looks like nothing gets done when you don't have Klempner to sit on your committee, set up the survey and tell you how to write it up.
You mean the Brits expect you to do all the work yourself? Just tell them that's not how they do it at Princeton, I'm sure they will understand.
Looking at all Leicester's nominally "female" supervisors with short hair and similar tell-tale signs of castration-obsessive behavior, the solution is obvious. In fact, give Janko credit for figuring out his supervisor's bias and pandering to it, as this seems to be the way higher education operates. Take that failed diss, add a few paragraphs about the importance of vagina-centric outcomes in the workplace, wear a dress to your viva voce, and soon you can call yourself Double Doctor!
RE: Okay To Shop Around? - Really? - 03-19-2012
Splendid advice, but certainly off-topic. The original post was about someone who shops his book to an alleged university, gets a "degree," then shops the exact same work to another alleged university (this one now out of business) and gets a second Ph.D.