Elmer = Douches Tecum

[Don Dresden]

Goal in life: To have my very own section over at DL

Judging by the windage in some of his posts (e.g., this thread), I suspect he already does.  "Continued in next posting..." ???  There couldn't be more than one douchebag that big on the planet.

Nice catch, Armando.  I broke it out as a separate thread.  It does look like Elmer is back posting at the gay boy porn front under the handle "Duces Tecum."  

And, no, there could not be more than one douchebag that big anywhere.  In case anyone needs proof...7 posts (so far) in one thread, zero content:

Mighty Mouse, aside from saving the day what is the ultimate goal of this quest? Perhaps you've stated it elsewhere around here, but to save me having to go out and hunt it down in other threads; and also to make this thread a bit more self-explanatory for the casual visitor who might happen to stumble upon it, please tell us what, in the end, you hope to accomplish. If you so do, I suspect you'll get all manner of suggestions from others here for far better ways to get it done... none of which, I'll bet, will require your getting involved with good-for-nothing "schools." And trust me, both the "schools" you've mentioned in your thread-starting post are the very definition of "good for nothing."

And beyond that, the only other thing I'd add is: Ditto what Kizmet wrote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
Actually, I simply directed a question to anyone who might live in that area and who could tell me if the school was still in operation.

And I'm guessing that you'd now agree that by hook or by crook, that question's been responded to... no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
As a state-approved school, it has a program that would be of interest to me.

And that, too... no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
As I have posted before, my master's is from the old Clayton in Missouri, so an accredited doctorate would be out of the question, I would be willing to bet.

See what Rich correctly wrote. At that level, many things are negotiable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
Plus, a legitimate state-approved doctorate would likely serve me fairly well.

See what Kizmet wrote; and also how I responded to your 2005 thread to which you linked us in your most recent post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
Going back and doing an accredited master's wouldn't serve me at all, at this point in my life/career.

As explained in my today's post in that older thread, getting anything but an accredited masters (or bachelors, or associates, or PhD) is foolhardy... for a variety of reasons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
I take it from the responses, that the school is neither legitimate (how did this get by Sacramento?), nor still in operation.

You've got it exactly right. And as for how it got by Sacramento (which I sense is an editorial comment, on your part, as much as it is a legitimate question), BPPVE hasn't worked very well for a long time. It's been more like a door lock: Useful, as a practical matter, only to keep out honest people. BPPVE-approved schools which operated with integrity continue to so do. Those which didn't are likely even worse today. BPPVE seemed, sometimes, not to care which was which.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
http://www.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?t=18206

And that would be the other thread to which you linked us, and to which I just now referred (and in which I just made a posting).

So, then, your interest is a PhD in music... religious music, it seems.

And you come to that table with a masters that you fear wouldn't be acceptable to an accredited school.

Hmm. Well... hmmm... I never thought this would ever happen, or could be possible, but given your circumstances, and that you seem to want your PhD to have credibility in spite of them...

...could this actually be a job for GTF and its Doctor of Sacred Music (D.S.M.) credential? Oh, sure, it's unaccredited, yet it dances on the very edge of legitimacy and credibility... and tends to fall down on the credible/legitimate side, in most cases. Oh, of course, it has a checkered past which has been discussed here many times; but it also has many graduates with some pretty impressive positions at some pretty impressive places. Just search these forums on the text string "GTF" and read every single post to get an overall feel for it. (And don't be too intimidated by the zero-tolerance for GTF by such as Steve Levicoff and certain others... who all have valid points, mind you, regarding GTF... but, still, in spite of itself, the institution has some serious supporters and impressive graduates.) Then be sure to seriously read then entirely of GTF's web site -- in fact, request a printed catalog -- before coming to any final conclusions, either way.

Might that be something like what you're looking for, Mighty Mouse? Could GTF save your day?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
I don't live near an SBC seminary (the nearest one being at Wake Forest, NC)...

Which, incidentally, just happens to be one of the best schools of its type on the planet... [sarcasm]but, hey... why should that matter?[/sarcasm]


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
As far as legitimacy or rigor is concerned - I would like both, but (and hope this doesn't make me sound disingenuous) I would sacrifice rigor for a shred of legitimacy, if that is possible.

Well, since rigor is one of the things which tends to make a school credible (in addition to being accredited), that would be a tough nut to crack given that unaccredited would be okay with you. But, in this context, as you've presented it (and especially now that I'm convinced that you don't have some kind of trollish ulterior motive), no, it's not disingenuous. Your candor is appreciated. And I'm sympathetic, too. Getting a proper education for second-career ministry can be very tough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
I mistakenly believed that CA approval would give me legitimacy.

It still can. For the longest time, until its recent DETC accreditation, California Southern University (formerly SCUPS) was credible. Oh, sure, it took some (sometimes well-deserved) hits from some around here (just search on the text string "SCUPS" to see what I mean); but, really, by and large, it has always been pretty credible, despite its (until recently) lack of real accreditation.

And though I won't, because I don't have time, I could come-up with a pretty impressive list, here, of unaccredited, formerly-only-BPPVE-approved (soon to be BPPE-approved) California schools which are very credible, indeed. BPPVE didn't do its job very well, so there are some real losers among its approved schools. But there are also some formerly-BPPVE-approved (soon to be BPPE-approved) schools out there that are as serious as a heart attack about being credible and rigorous and legitimate and respectable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
In SC, where we know very little about CA schools other than football and Golden Gate Seminary...

Oh, I'll bet California is [in]famous in NC for a whole lot more than just that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
...CA approval might just do it. If the school were a real, functioning school where you could phone them and they would actually answer.

Don't be so quick to assume that. The word about the need for accreditation as a hedge against diploma and degree mills is getting out... to everyone, everywhere. More and more people are learning that if a given school isn't accredited by a USDE- and/or CHEA-approved agency, then the statistical possibility of it being a mill exponentially rises; and so even if it isn't one, it gets a taint. And in some people's minds, "unaccredited" and "diploma mill" or "degree mill" are all synonymous. The last thing you'd want is to get a gig at a church using your unaccredited DSM degree, and then have someone point out that it's unaccredited and millish. Even if it actually isn't, there you'd be defending yourself. Who wants to be in that position! At least with the GTF DSM (just as an example), you could point at all the impressive people with all the impressive positions who have unaccredited GTF degrees as part of your argument. But, again, why put yourself in the position where you even ever have to make it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
Now GTF. As I said, I am a Southern Baptist in SC, with no likelihood of changing ... [and] degree from such a school would not be helpful to me listed on my resume. Most Southern Baptists do not like Roman Catholicism. I was told by an Episcopalian priest once that it is because we are so much alike. If you are RC, I apologize for being blunt.

I'm not RC, but I'm at least a sympathizer. [grin] Still, no offense taken. And I'm puzzled by the "we" in "we are so much alike." Do you mean Episcopalians and Roman Catholics are so much alike? Because Southern Baptists aren't like either of them! So now I'm tripping on "we" in that sentence; help me out, here. And Roman Catholics are liturgically like Episcopalians (Anglicans), but there are some huge theological differeinces... like the RC's salvation through works, just to name one biggie. There are certainly others. But now we digress. Sorry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
I have considered another school, Pacific International Theological Seminary, staffed by mostly Southern Baptists. It is RE (religiously exempted from state regulation) in CA, and so I can only assume now that it doesn't even meet CA-approved standards.

Don't be so sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
As I posted on another forum, likely I will not go back for a doctorate. My only other interest is getting Microsoft certified in Excel, and I can do that at a local community college.

Or in about a gazillion online (or some other form of distance learning) programs... some accredited, some not... but for that, who cares.


Hmm. Well, please don't you be offended, now, but as for the SBC's turning-up its nose at a sacred music degree with anything other than bona fide Southern Baptist breeding...

...[sarcasm]no wonder Jimmy Carter defected. Though he did it for other reasons, I'll bet if he'd known that a sacred music doctorate from a school with Roman Catholic underpinnings would be treated by his denomination as anathema, he'd have jumped ship a whole lot sooner![/sarcasm]

[sigh] A person with a doctorate-level degree in sacred music is quite likely going to be sufficiently bright to understand his/her audience; and to adjust musical programming accordingly. I'm as far to the left of the SBC as you can imagine, but I'll bet I could chair an SBC church's Worship and Music Committee (or whatever it's called in SBC churches) and get it right, in the church members' minds, every single time. It simply matters not where the degree is from in circumstance like this. Moreover, I don't know about you, but I'd want my church's musical director to be as fluent in Roman Catholic (and/or Anglican, and/or Lutheran, and/or Presbyterian, and/or... you get the idea) hymnody as in SBC hymnody. It's called being "well rounded" in one's education... which is kinda' the whole point.


Now, as for Pacific International Theological Seminary (PITS), it is definitely unaccredited. Further, it was, indeed, religiously exempt from BPPVE regulation (when BPPVE existed); and will likely continue to be so once BPPE starts up.

PITS claims approval by The Association of Christian Schools International (ACSI), which is not a USDE- or CHEA-approved accreditor, but which I have, in my travels determined to be quite credible. And one of the reasons (and by no means anywhere near the top of the list of important ones) is that ACSI only claims to "approve" schools, not accredit them. This, I have long argued, is the only thing (in addition to, perhaps, "certfiying" them) that agencies not approved by USDE and/or CHEA should ever do... leaving the word "accredit" (and all its variations) to describe only what USDE- and/or CHEA-approved accreditors do). And ACSI seems to understand this... gotta' like that. But, in addition, though its training is too theologically conservative for my tastes, it does a perfectly fine job of certifying Christian school teachers and other professionals. ACSI is, overall, a pretty okay little operation... worth proudly claiming the association of on one's college web site.

PITS is also fairly clear on its "about us" page that its affiliation with the USDE- and CHEA-approved accreditor ABHE is only that: Affiliation. It makes further clear that it is actively working on going up to the next level with ABHE: Actual accreditation. I also like that... very much, in fact. Some ABHE affiliates use said affiliation to confuse degree seekers on their web sites by mentioning that they're affiliated with ABHE and then simply putting a comma behind ABHE and then adding "an accreditor approved by the US Department of Education (USDE) and the Council for Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA)." These institutions know that most degree seekers don't have a sophisticated understanding of accreditation and are looking for the magic of the word "accreditor" and will most likely miss completely the word "affiliated" and may even make the slip in their minds of adding that all up to mean that the institution is, indeed, accredited. PITS doesn't do that. That's nice.

Plus, if you enroll at PITS, and it gets accredited before you finish, then your entire degree from PITS will still be considered accredited, even if you obtained most of it before PITS became accredited.

Also, I only see a Master of Church Music, not a doctorate. But then again, it seems you're now saying that you won't be going back and pursuing such a degree after all? I'm confused.

But, anyway, bottom line: PITS seems legit... maybe a good choice for you if it suits your purposes; and as long as you understand what its being unaccredited might mean for you in the future. Worth your consideration, it seems to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
Years ago when I ... [snip] why do they hate each other so much?" His response was that they "are so much alike."

Well, I disagree.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mighty mouse
Really, I am the one confused, and confusion is frustrating, and frustration is exhausting. I am trying to decide if going back to school at 50 is going to accomplish what I thought the Clayton degree was going to accomplish 23 years ago.

I sent an email to PITS, and ... I spoke to the registrar who told me the D Min and the ThD could both be done with a concentration in Sacred Music and at a distance. The consideration now is this: an unaccredited degree, maybe achieving applicant or candidate status by the time I finish, and a D Min program at $140/hr x 60 hrs, or a ThD at $160/hr x 72 hrs. Do I raid the 401(k) or not? And in that, lies my confusion. I have no intention of buying myself a cheap piece of paper with Gothic lettering on it. But if I do go back, how long until those rights and privileges kick in?

I feel your pain... and frustration... and exhaustion.

Having read what you just wrote, even though PITS looks at least superficially okay as unaccredited seminaries go, I simply could not advise you to spend what is clearly very precious money on an unaccredited degree.

Also, regarding that credibility, I might have spoken too soon. Now that I've finally downloaded the PDF of its catalog, I can see that though PITS has apparently removed it from its web site, it is, on page 5 of said catalog, claiming bogus accreditation, to wit:


Pacific International Theological Seminary has registered by the state & federal revenues service 501c3 as non-profit organization. The school has been approved by BPPVE as Religious Exemption Institutions and is a Christian institution, in Southern California, that is accredited with ACCTS (Association of Christian Colleges and Theological Schools) and now is seeking accreditation status with ABHE (The Association for Biblical Higher Education).
Well, of course, ACCTS is is not a USDE- and/or CHEA-approved accreditor. And pretty much everyone who values accreditation and abhors diploma and degree mills -- and, in this case, accreditation mills, too -- agrees that claiming bogus accreditation is way worse than not having accreditation at all. So, right there, just with that, I'm able to take back my words about having a sense that PITS is probably credible despite its being unaccredited. If it's going to claim bogus accreditation, then it's flat-out fraudulent; and so I hereby withdraw my suggestion that it may be right for you.

But it gets worse...

Note how it worded its BPPVE-related language: "The school has been approved by BPPVE as Religious Exemption Institutions..." Well, that's just bunk. If a school is exempt from state regulation, then it's even exempt from the state's agreeing so. Exempt is exempt. BPPVE never "approved" any exempt schools for anything. It simply ignored schools which the law clearly stated were exempt. That's how pretty much all states do it. At most, PITS might have sent a letter to BPPVE and asked if it agreed that PITS should be exempt, and BPPVE may have sent a letter back confirming that it was, but in that case that would be nothing more than a state agency clarifying something as part of simply answering a question... which is a far cray from "approval."

The troubling thing about this is that that's how many unaccredited religious schools and seminaries do things... and nearly all who do are either millish or flat-out, full-blown mills.

So, then, I want to hereby do a one-eighty on what I earlier wrote. Based solely on these two things (bogus accreditation, and slimy and misleading BPPVE religious exemption language), I hereby no longer believe that PITS is credible. It is not... at least not if it's going to pull stunts like that. And shame on it for being just one more good-for-nothing religious school that clearly just doesn't get it.


Just FYI: Do you know what is one of the most credible unaccredited seminaries on the entire planet? Columbia Evangelical Seminary. And talk about affordable: Only its doctoral-level degrees break a hundred bucks per credit hour. Unfortunately, none of its doctoral degrees are in music. But visiting its web site and, specifically, reading its accreditation page, might be a good exercise for you... and anyone else who's a little confused about accreditation and religious schools. Rick Walston, who runs the seminary, has long been a foe of diploma and degree mills; and he's none too happy about the fact that so many fraudsters use state religious exemptions in law to operate with impunity. He's writeen several books, and has the respect of even the most rabid anti-diploma mill activist.


Continued in next posting...

...continued from previous posting:


So, then... back to your problem...

Before you go much further, just to make sure you've dotted your i's and cross your t's, have you inquired of absolutely every school on both the ABHE and TRACS web sites? I mean every single one.

Transnational Association of Christian Colleges and Schools (TRACS)
http://www.tracs.org/member.htm (accredited schools & candidates)

The Association for Biblical Higher Education (ABHE)
http://directory.abhe.org/default.aspx?status=Member (accredited schools)
http://directory.abhe.org/default.aspx?status=Applicant (applicants)
The reason to check-out ABHE applicants, too (or, in the case of TRACS, its "candidates"), is that, as earlier alluded to, if you begin a degree at an applicant or candidate school, and then it becomes accredited while you're still working on the degree, then the degree is considered accredited because the school was accredited at the time you finished. What matters with the "when" of accreditation is the completion date of the degree, not its inception date. So if you're fairly convinced that any given ABHE/TRACS applicant/candidate will earn its accreditation before you can complete the degree, then you should not hesitate to enroll there even before it's accredited.

Either ABHE or TRACS is probably a longshot for a doctorate in sacred or church music via distance learning... but it's worth checking-out.


Oh, yeah... and I probably should have proffered this Google search earlier in this conversation. Sorry.


[sigh] So, then... the pain of yours to which I earlier alluded, which I wrote that I feel, is because I know a lot about second career ministry; but also because I know a lot about ageism. At 50, you're entering the beginning (and, actually, in certain fields, like high tech, you're about 15 years into it) of a period in life when you'll not be considered for jobs just because of your age. It's illegal, but it happens all the time.

Since second-career ministry is pretty common, it doesn't happen in that quite as much as in other fields... but, believe me, it's there, too. That, I realize, doesn't help much... you might even be wishing right about now that I hadn't pointed it out. But it's better, I think, to have eyes wide open about these sorts of things.

The upside, though, is that ministers of pretty much all types are in short supply in many denominations; and one can even search on the word "church" in places like Craigslist in almost any city and find lots of church music director positions. So, of all the second-career ministry jobs in which you could be interested, it seems like maybe this one has possibilities.

The answer, though, to your question about how to realize a sense of having recouped your investment in a DSM, or a DTh in Music, etc., is a hard one. But I'm not sure that's the way to look at it, in any case. If ever an occupational/career area called for the proverbial "leap of faith," prima facie, it's this one.

One of the nice things about the discernment process which ordained clergy are forced to endure -- and in which you, too, should be engaging -- is that it helps to separate the practical from the spiritual among one's concerns. You're 50 years old. You didn't come-up with this notion last week. If you're like most second-career ministers, this has been nagging at you for years; and that's spiritual, not practical... the very nature of "call."

We are reminded in James that faith without works is dead; but how to discern between those works which are merely a part of a living faith and faithful living, and those which are a proper pursuit of Chrisitan vocation... well... that's no small thing.

"I do not know who -- or what -- put the question. I don't know when it was put. I don't even remember answering. But at some moment I did answer 'yes' to someone -- or something -- and from that hour I was certain that existence is meaningful and that, therefore, my life, in self-surrender, had a goal."

- Dag Hammarskjold, Secretary-General of the United Nations, 1953-1961
Micah 6:8 calls on us all to simply "do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly with [our] God." Colossians 3:23 certainly invites all Christians to think of any task as work done in the Lord's service; and 2 Thessalonians 1:11 and 1 Corinthians 1:26 drive home the point that each Christian is called, simply, to be a servant of God in all of life. Amidst the seeming commonness and mundanity of all that, it is easy to worry, also, about such as one's 401(k) and/or educational investment payback.

However, beyond that common calling of all Christians, at the point where our work best meets the legitimate needs of God's world, vocation begins. The discernment process helps us to separate out from the many voices calling upon us that which is the whisper of God... the almost imperceptible breath of the Holy Spirit across the hairs on the backs of our necks, urging us to that which is both what we need to do, and what the world most needs done. The place where God calls us is the place where our deep gladness and the world's hunger meet.

You are at the place in your journey through the discernment wilderness where you have hit the wall of success motivation which stifles our desire for faithfulness, raises the denial of our gifts, and breeds an unwillingness to trust God and a temptation to ignore our calling. When you say you are confused, and frustrated, and exhausted; and wonder about your 401(k), you are Sarah, who laughed at the seeming impossibility of God's promise in Genesis 18:9-15; or Isaiah, who was overwhelmed by his own sense of unworthiness in Isaiah 6:5. When you wonder about the payback, you are like the rich man who is admonished to "go, sell what you own ... then come, follow me" in Mark 10:17-22. At that moment, best is heard the promise of God as found in Isaiah 41:8-10: "Do not fear, for I am with you. Do not be afraid, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you..."

As you further discern your call and response thereto through thoughtful and prayerful consideration, and if the work of that call really is at the place where your deep gladness and the world's hunger meet, then you will sense God's presence and power, and will be able to claim God's call and say, as in Isaiah 6:8, "Here am I; send me."

And then you will not worry about 401(k)'s or paybacks.

At that point, all that will remain is avoiding the embarrassment, later, of being challenged for your having gotten a degree in preparation for the fulfillment of your call which is anything short of beyond reproach. At that point, the shred of legitimacy for which you once contemplated sacrificing rigor will, in retrospect, seem ludicrous. At that point your will be ever mindful of that integrity means doing the right thing even when no one's watching.

Among my struggles with unaccredited religious schools which play fast and loose with both impression and truth is how it so deeply dishonors the tenets of the precious very faith they claim to the point that they become as the false prophets as in Jeremiah 28:1-16 or 1 John 4:1. They sully the good name of Christianity, and make a mockery of its very teachings.

Among my struggles with those of their students who would settle for that -- who would trade their shred of legitimacy for rigor -- is that they do the same.

Do not be attracted to their empty promises "but test everything; [and] hold fast to what is good" as in 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

Recognize what you're going though as simply a step in the process of your necessarily difficult discernment. Until you do, for as long as it feels to you merely a pointless struggle, with all the confusion, frustration and exhaustion you've described which attends it, I will keep you, and it, in my prayers.

Good luck, and Peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randell1234  
This may be way off but have you looked at NationsU? They applied for accreditation through DETC, 100% online, and only $100 per year. That is worth the risk even if hey do not get accreditied. They offer a Master of Religious Studies and Master of Divinity.

I don't think it's one bit off... it's an excellent suggestion; and I had thought of recommending it because it, too, is credible but unaccredited (though perhaps not for long on the unaccredited part).

But it offers no doctorate in church or sacred music. In fact, since it's going for DETC accreditation, it likely won't be offering any kind of doctorate for quite a while.

There's the rub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randell1234  
I understand but thought I would throw it out there. Sometimes "almost free" can really add to the appeal.

Yep. No argument, there.

[Ben Johnson]

And I'm still wondering how he caught AIDS falling off a ladder.  The new Douche sure sounds like the old douche. I think Janko's nightmares after seeing Elmer led directly to his death. Isn't all bad.

[Albert Hidel]

Did Mr. Keyboard Diarrhea just get out of jail or rehab, or just get his computer back out of the pawn shop?  He's been posting up a storm lately after several years of apparent inactivity.  

Looks like he relocated to Vallejo, just south of his former claimed home of Napa.  Vallejo is one of the cities where the famed Zodiac Killer committed his murders, so this may be what makes it so attractive to Elmer.

Here's what he claims to be up to lately, taken from some post he made about counting stinking bums for the census:

Ensuring that all homeless are counted can bring much needed federal dollars to Vallejo

by Gregg L. DesElms
3/22/10

I need the help of all VIB readers (and pretty much everyone else in Vallejo) to tell me every single place where they've been seeing homeless people living and/or congregating in Vallejo. And I need it pretty much right now... today. The reason is because I've partnered with the US Census Bureau this year to help ensure that all the homeless are counted when the census workers fan out across the city during the last three days of March to do their every-ten-year homeless count. And the reason that's important is because the Census Bureau estimates that for every person in Vallejo who's counted this year -- even the homeless, and, yes, even you -- roughly $1,200 per person per year will be allocated to Vallejo in one form or another of federal funds during the coming decade. And since I estimate that Vallejo's homeless have been grossly undercounted in the past; and that there may even be as many as 1,500 of them out there, then at $1,200 per person per year, that's some roughly $18 million that could be heading Vallejo's way in the next ten years if we can just get all those homeless folks counted!

So we've got to scramble... and fast.  I've made it super-easy for everyone to communicate with me.

I've created a web page at  www.homelessvallejo.org   where you can fill-in a form.  

Or my toll-free telephone number is 1-877-383-5148.  

My email address is gregg@greggdeselms.com

...
Gregg DesElms performs agency and advocacy to the homeless, disabled vets, the elderly, recent parolees, and others similarly in need.  Though he's been doing it as needed for thirty years, it has become a nearly full-time ministry for him during the past five or so years.  You may view a copy of his business card as a PDF file at www.tinyurl.com/deselms-card

http://ibvallejo.com/index.php?option=co...#josc13860

[ham]

It can even get worse...like a site I read, where a bunch of 16yo posed as scholars in Roman history...

[Dennis Ruhl]

Looks like he relocated to Vallejo, just south of his former claimed home of Napa.  Vallejo is one of the cities where the famed Zodiac Killer committed his murders, so this may be what makes it so attractive to Elmer.

Just how old is Elmer?  Here's an old sketch of him.  I wonder whether it bears any resemblance to the Zodiak?

[Yancy Derringer]

Here's an old sketch of him. 

Funny how Elmer shows up at the scene of so many controversial deaths.  Zodiac, Laci Peterson, Janko....


Bear calls BS on Elmer at DI:

Mr. Tecum: "Goal in life: To have my very own section over at DL Truth."

Ad Testificandum: If the guessers of your identify (there, and here) are correct, sir, then you already do.

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showpost.ph...ostcount=1

For anyone else, it's a TOS violation.  Why hasn't this miscreant been banned?  Something to do with officiating at Chip's marriage?

[Dickie Billericay]

And I'm still wondering how he caught AIDS falling off a ladder. 

It does look like the DesElms Ladder Fund won't be enjoying quite the same success as the Israel Bicycle Fund.  Both still running well behind the Weaver-Hudson Brake Repair & Suspension Maintenance Fund.

[ham]

   

Here it is.

[WilliamW]

After an email inviting said person to post under his original username (having confirmed that said person is, in fact, who everyone on the planet thought he was) to which no response was forthcoming, he seems to have disappeared again.

...back into the sewage from whence it came.

[ham]

They are like those amnesiac sociopaths who kill someone, cut him into pieces and bury him in the basement, then revert to another personality who knows nothing of all that...maybe TECUM knows nothing of the massage parlor addict, who knows nothing of the one soliciting underage DeMolay boys, who knows nothing of the social misfit marrying young filipinas, who knows nothing about the gay-affirmative preacher...