"I receive a great many letters from people who ask essentially the same question. You have written about a great many schools. Please tell me which one is best of all."

"Here, then, are my personal six favorite schools in each of five categories. There are many other "GOOD" schools and programs as well."

Non-Residential Programs
Doctorate

1-University of South Africa
2-Columbia Pacific University
3-Pacific Western University
4-International Institute for Advanced Studies
5-California Coast University
6-Kensington University

--John Bear, Ph.D. "How to Earn an American University Degree Without Ever Going to America"--1982, California, Mendocino Book Company--Page 111-112, Section 63

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"Some people argue, in effect that if a school is not accredited it is a degree mill. This is nonsense. Look at the credentials of Dr. Walston and his collegues. And look at the work of the students."

--John Bear--Columbia Evangelical Seminary Website

(03-06-2012, 08:51 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: "Here, then, are my personal six favorite schools in each of five categories. There are many other "GOOD" schools and programs as well."
Non-Residential Programs
Doctorate

1-University of South Africa
2-Columbia Pacific University
3-Pacific Western University
4-International Institute for Advanced Studies
5-California Coast University
6-Kensington University

--John Bear, Ph.D. "How to Earn an American University Degree Without Ever Going to America"--1982, California, Mendocino Book Company--Page 111-112, Section 63

Obviously great minds think alike as I was just browsing through the first JB book I ever received, the 1984 Edition of – “How to Earn an American University Degree …….” – in which is also recommends the same ‘unaccredited’ schools for a Master’s degree. And on page 11 he does the biggest rave in the entire book about COLUMBIA PACIFIC UNIVERSITY! Of course large numbers of graduates from CPU went on to do great things and there is little wonder that JB is looked on as a very strange individual!

(03-06-2012, 08:51 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: "I receive a great many letters from people who ask essentially the same question. You have written about a great many schools. Please tell me which one is best of all."

"Here, then, are my personal six favorite schools in each of five categories. There are many other "GOOD" schools and programs as well."

Non-Residential Programs
Doctorate

1-University of South Africa
2-Columbia Pacific University
3-Pacific Western University
4-International Institute for Advanced Studies
5-California Coast University
6-Kensington University

--John Bear, Ph.D. "How to Earn an American University Degree Without Ever Going to America"--1982, California, Mendocino Book Company--Page 111-112, Section 63

---

"Some people argue, in effect that if a school is not accredited it is a degree mill. This is nonsense. Look at the credentials of Dr. Walston and his collegues. And look at the work of the students."

--John Bear--Columbia Evangelical Seminary Website

This is from a source that is 30 years old. Perhaps what was reasonable then is not now? Got anything from this century?

(03-06-2012, 11:47 AM)Really? Wrote:

(03-06-2012, 08:51 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: "I receive a great many letters from people who ask essentially the same question. You have written about a great many schools. Please tell me which one is best of all."

"Here, then, are my personal six favorite schools in each of five categories. There are many other "GOOD" schools and programs as well."

Non-Residential Programs
Doctorate

1-University of South Africa
2-Columbia Pacific University
3-Pacific Western University
4-International Institute for Advanced Studies
5-California Coast University
6-Kensington University

--John Bear, Ph.D. "How to Earn an American University Degree Without Ever Going to America"--1982, California, Mendocino Book Company--Page 111-112, Section 63

---

"Some people argue, in effect that if a school is not accredited it is a degree mill. This is nonsense. Look at the credentials of Dr. Walston and his collegues. And look at the work of the students."

--John Bear--Columbia Evangelical Seminary Website

This is from a source that is 30 years old. Perhaps what was reasonable then is not now? Got anything from this century?

You mean that unaccredited or phony degrees acquired "back then when it was ok" are any different from unaccredited or phony degrees acquired "here and now"? How?

(03-06-2012, 08:51 AM)jamesc1 Wrote: Non-Residential Programs
Doctorate

1-University of South Africa
2-Columbia Pacific University
3-Pacific Western University
4-International Institute for Advanced Studies
5-California Coast University
6-Kensington University

1. OK
2. Best school ever shut down by California authorities. Bear affiliation.
3. Now the accredited California Miramar University
4. Changed name to Greenwich. The best school (only school) ever shut down by Australian authorities. Australia created its own accreditation mill for the sole purpose of closing it down. Bear affiliation.
5. Now accredited.
6. Run out of California and run out of Hawaii.

3 now accredited instead of 1
2 Bear schools gone despite graduates having reasonable success -politics.
1 Rotten school

Looking back, Bear batted 500 and a couple more schools succumbed to politics.

[/quote]

You mean that unaccredited or phony degrees acquired "back then when it was ok" are any different from unaccredited or phony degrees acquired "here and now"? How?
[/quote]

"Phony"? Of course not. Unaccredited? In many cases, given that the opportunities for working professionals to earn accredited degrees while continuing to work were considerably fewer in those days. Also, in California--where most of the unaccredited schools cited were located--was undergoing a significant revolution in alternative higher education. In many ways, it still is. But the accredited alternatives are so much more prevalent, it diminishes the argument for pursuing unaccredited alternatives.

(03-07-2012, 01:31 AM)Really? Wrote: But the accredited alternatives are so much more prevalent, it diminishes the argument for pursuing unaccredited alternatives.

Someone might like to eat in a $100 restaurant. If they do not have $100 they do not starve. They might go to a $3.95 restaurant or anywhere in between.

Someone who is challenged by academics and does not have $50,000 for a doctorate, might opt for the $5 - 10,000 doctorate. The academic world has mileposts and lack of ability to physically attend of afford the tuition shouldn't be a big sin.

In case you hadn't noticed a whole whack of people do not attend school to get a job so utility is somewhat of a red herring. Although they are indications accreditation is no guarantee of quality and lack of accreditation does not guarantee lack of quality.

(03-07-2012, 02:01 AM)Ben Johnson Wrote: Someone might like to eat in a $100 restaurant. If they do not have $100 they do not starve. They might go to a $3.95 restaurant or anywhere in between.

Yes, but if that same person roots around in the dumpster out back, he/she might eat, but that doesn't make the dumpster a restaurant.

Quote:Someone who is challenged by academics and does not have $50,000 for a doctorate, might opt for the $5 - 10,000 doctorate. The academic world has mileposts and lack of ability to physically attend of afford the tuition shouldn't be a big sin.

Except this isn't about a sliding scale. All over the world there are standards for what is and is not a university. Lower costs do not change that--degrees from unaccredited schools don't become better because they are cheaper.

The $50k figure you cite is misleading; there are many accredited options available for much less money.

Quote:In case you hadn't noticed a whole whack of people do not attend school to get a job so utility is somewhat of a red herring.

Fine, but that cuts both ways. The reasons for purchasing such a credential do not have an impact on whether it is better or worse--it is what it is.

Quote:Although they are indications accreditation is no guarantee of quality and lack of accreditation does not guarantee lack of quality.

This polarity is a function of weak logic-making. It isn't "either/or," but instead "yes, and." No "guarantees" on either side. But assurances? That's another question. There is simply no way a lack of standards (in the unaccredited world) provides a comparable level of insight into the quality of said schools. No way. You always know what you're getting with an accredited school. The same is not true with unaccredited schools--even if there are a few exceptions.

Also, the dichotomy is imbalanced: no one ever went to jail because they operated an accredited school. No one ever lost a job because of a true claim of an accredited degree. No one was ever sued because they had credentials from an accredited school. It is a false equivalency.

Quote:Also, the dichotomy is imbalanced: no one ever went to jail because they operated an accredited school. No one ever lost a job because of a true claim of an accredited degree. No one was ever sued because they had credentials from an accredited school. It is a false equivalency.

Well, there are people whose careers were ruined and/or degree revoked for political reasons...it doesn't matter whether you think they had it coming or not...it happened to them...it could happen to you...i personally witnessed the emotional collapse of a ph.d candidate whose viva had been botched by ONE professor on grounds of purely political disagreement...naturally he didn't say so...he just picked her work apart...guess what? I can pick apart mostly anything...typed 1879 instead of 1789? You call it a typo...i call it sloppy scholarship and fail you on referencing grounds...
Of course, the last assignments i got back from this wonderful accredited school had so many typos in -on the instructor's side- to make you laugh...

(03-07-2012, 03:18 PM)ham Wrote:

Quote:Also, the dichotomy is imbalanced: no one ever went to jail because they operated an accredited school. No one ever lost a job because of a true claim of an accredited degree. No one was ever sued because they had credentials from an accredited school. It is a false equivalency.

Well, there are people whose careers were ruined and/or degree revoked for political reasons...it doesn't matter whether you think they had it coming or not...it happened to them...it could happen to you...i personally witnessed the emotional collapse of a ph.d candidate whose viva had been botched by ONE professor on grounds of purely political disagreement...naturally he didn't say so...he just picked her work apart...guess what? I can pick apart mostly anything...typed 1879 instead of 1789? You call it a typo...i call it sloppy scholarship and fail you on referencing grounds...
Of course, the last assignments i got back from this wonderful accredited school had so many typos in -on the instructor's side- to make you laugh...

But these anecdotes don't address the point, do they? They could just as easily occur at unaccredited schools. Again, no one ever got in trouble for having a degree from an accredited school. The opposite simply is not true, as we've seen over the last few decades.